What should have been

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Nebiros
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What should have been

Postby Nebiros » 21 Feb 2009 19:57

Brian and Kevin lost their legitimacy in writing Dune books after Sandworms of Dune.

But they started off well with the House books. Back then they did not get carried away with Norma Cenva. While I admit that the House books did not have literary and educational value the original six had, it gave fans an expanded view of Dune.

They got into more details with some of our favorite characters from the first novel. We got more of Jessica, the Baron, Shaddam, Gurney, Duncan and even Fenring. They explore the Imperium of Shaddam IV in further detail which I really liked. The first book was the made into a movie and they made video games based in a non-cannon Dune Universe very similar to that of the first Dune novel. So clearly fans were very interested in the Dune of Pre-Muad'Dib. Which is exactly what the first three give us.

So what went wrong? Well it seems that when the money started coming in, Brian and Kevin were no longer in it to maintain the quality of the literature. I have another theory though: They realized the quality of their writing was not as good as Frank's so they thought that the more books they wrote, the more likely people will remember them in the future as science fiction authors. What do I mean? Well unless we do massive book burning, millions of Brian and Kevin books have been pumped into circulation. They might soon be out of print, but there definitely will not be a shortage of Kevin in second hand book stores in the future.

Most fans of Frank Herbert's Dune say that Brian should never have written any more Dune novels at all and left the series on a cliffhanger. A minority of them suggested picking another co-author and write just ONE sequel with as much of Frank's style as possible and taking more than just two months to write it. I'm for the latter.

If they had just wrote the Prelude/House novels and left it at that, a lot less people would be complaining. I would see it as expanding the Dune Universe like the Dune computer games did in a non harmful way. Who here complained about the Dune computer games? Nobody so far.

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Postby DuneFishUK » 21 Feb 2009 21:11

Frank was going to finish Dune with a 7th book. I always thought that was pretty obvious.

These two lost their legitimacy when we worked out they had no intention of continuing Frank's story. They have made Dune their own.

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Re: What should have been

Postby SandChigger » 21 Feb 2009 21:20

Nebby, you are just so full of shit.

Nebiros wrote:Brian and Kevin lost their legitimacy in writing Dune books after Sandworms of Dune.

Wrong. They never had any legitimacy in writing Dune. Frank Herbert never issued any public statement about handing the franchise over to Brian to continue. And he never met that shithead Anderson and probably had never even heard of him. Owning the copyrights to a work does not give you the right to extend or alter it.

But they started off well with the House books.

No they didn't. The House books were shit, too.

Back then they did not get carried away with Norma Cenva. While I admit that the House books did not have literary and educational value the original six had, it gave fans an expanded view of Dune.

They gave fans a view of something, but it certainly wasn't Dune.

They got into more details with some of our favorite characters from the first novel. We got more of Jessica, the Baron, Shaddam, Gurney, Duncan and even Fenring. They explore the Imperium of Shaddam IV in further detail which I really liked. The first book was the made into a movie and they made video games based in a non-cannon Dune Universe very similar to that of the first Dune novel. So clearly fans were very interested in the Dune of Pre-Muad'Dib. Which is exactly what the first three give us.

You probably drink decaffeinated coffee and sugar-free soda, right? This is their Dune, not Frank Herbert's. A sallow, shallow wraith of Dune with NO BALLS. Anyone who reads that shit and thinks, "Oh, kewl! More Dune" is a fuckwit that never understood anything of the originals.

So what went wrong? Well it seems that when the money started coming in, Brian and Kevin were no longer in it to maintain the quality of the literature.

NEITHER of those two hacks has ever written anything even remotely approaching literature.

I have another theory though: They realized the quality of their writing was not as good as Frank's so they thought that the more books they wrote, the more likely people will remember them in the future as science fiction authors.

And I've got a big festering pimple on my left ass cheek. Wanna hear about it, too? :roll:

What do I mean?

Beats the FUCK out of me.

Well unless we do massive book burning, millions of Brian and Kevin books have been pumped into circulation. They might soon be out of print, but there definitely will not be a shortage of Kevin in second hand book stores in the future.

Book burning? What a wonderfully "Christian" NAZI idea! And coming from a librarian?!

Most fans of Frank Herbert's Dune say that Brian should never have written any more Dune novels at all and left the series on a cliffhanger. A minority of them suggested picking another co-author and write just ONE sequel with as much of Frank's style as possible and taking more than just two months to write it. I'm for the latter.

What cliffhanger? It was open-ended. Attitude of the knife. People who say it was a cliffhanger don't get that. (Like ... Kevin! What a surprise!)

What evidence do we have that FH seriously intended to write a "Dune 7"? Brian's word (snicker) and pictures of two hand-labelled floppies that no one has ever provided a date for.

In other words ... nothing.

If they had just wrote the Prelude/House novels and left it at that, a lot less people would be complaining. I would see it as expanding the Dune Universe like the Dune computer games did in a non harmful way. Who here complained about the Dune computer games? Nobody so far.

HI! Computer games? Give me a break. I forget which of the games it was that gave you the inspiration for your silly House Ordos fanfic, but a House using "thinking machines" with no one suspecting anything?

Nah, no harmful expansion there. :roll:

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Postby Schu » 21 Feb 2009 23:30

When it's a computer game, you don't really expect it to stick to canon. That's why no-one complained.

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Postby Omphalos » 22 Feb 2009 01:52

House Atreides was shit Billy.

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Postby Mr. Teg » 22 Feb 2009 02:21

Obviously, they made up 99% of the material (If you remove the title and names of original characters and places what are you left with?).

False advertising.
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Re: What should have been

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Feb 2009 12:13

Nebiros wrote:Brian and Kevin lost their legitimacy in writing Dune books after Sandworms of Dune.


I gave them up until the introduction of Omnius and Erasmus in Hunters of Dune.

But they started off well with the House books. Back then they did not get carried away with Norma Cenva. While I admit that the House books did not have literary and educational value the original six had, it gave fans an expanded view of Dune.


I think having her do anything more significant than designing the first Guild ship is carried away.

They got into more details with some of our favorite characters from the first novel. We got more of Jessica, the Baron, Shaddam, Gurney, Duncan and even Fenring. They explore the Imperium of Shaddam IV in further detail which I really liked. The first book was the made into a movie and they made video games based in a non-cannon Dune Universe very similar to that of the first Dune novel. So clearly fans were very interested in the Dune of Pre-Muad'Dib. Which is exactly what the first three give us.


I didn't like how they made Shaddam to be an utter fool or the Baron totally evil, their characters are flat.

So what went wrong? Well it seems that when the money started coming in, Brian and Kevin were no longer in it to maintain the quality of the literature.


That's GOT to be a joke.

I have another theory though: They realized the quality of their writing was not as good as Frank's so they thought that the more books they wrote, the more likely people will remember them in the future as science fiction authors. What do I mean? Well unless we do massive book burning, millions of Brian and Kevin books have been pumped into circulation. They might soon be out of print, but there definitely will not be a shortage of Kevin in second hand book stores in the future.


Just as bad.

Most fans of Frank Herbert's Dune say that Brian should never have written any more Dune novels at all and left the series on a cliffhanger. A minority of them suggested picking another co-author and write just ONE sequel with as much of Frank's style as possible and taking more than just two months to write it. I'm for the latter.


I dissagree with you consensus of dune fans. I think the majority of us would have loved to see Brian work with various authors in their own styles. Spending more than two months on it even being discussed is insulting to FH.

If they had just wrote the Prelude/House novels and left it at that, a lot less people would be complaining. I would see it as expanding the Dune Universe like the Dune computer games did in a non harmful way. Who here complained about the Dune computer games? Nobody so far.


I'll give you that, the Prelude series was not completely vomitous. I like video games but I haven't been able to get into any of the Dune attempts.
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Postby Nekhrun » 22 Feb 2009 14:27

I wonder if Hellhole will be as good as the House Series :roll: Haven't heard any updates lately.

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Postby SandChigger » 22 Feb 2009 16:14

Kevin's too busy right now with his rocker friends to fret over his next gig with that Herbert boob.

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Postby Nekhrun » 22 Feb 2009 16:29

SandChigger wrote:Kevin's too busy right now with his rocker friends to fret over his next gig with that Herbert boob.

What will be really funny is if and when they ever write a non-Dune book together, how many of FH's ideas they steal that they could've actually put in a Dune book.

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Postby SandChigger » 22 Feb 2009 16:33

:lol:

Remember that Kevin has a copy of the notes for his very own now. He doesn't really need Boob Herbert for much more.

(That came out in one of the PoD tour talks. ;) )

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Re: What should have been

Postby cmsahe » 23 Feb 2009 02:05

SandChigger wrote:Nebby, you are just so full of shit.

Nebiros wrote:Brian and Kevin lost their legitimacy in writing Dune books after Sandworms of Dune.

Wrong. They never had any legitimacy in writing Dune. Frank Herbert never issued any public statement about handing the franchise over to Brian to continue. And he never met that shithead Anderson and probably had never even heard of him.
And now KJA happens to be the brother of Brian?? How come? Remember that interview: "Sons of Dune." , and the cake picture: "Well done my boys!":)
Only the books written by Frank Herbert are canon.


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Re: What should have been

Postby Mr. Teg » 23 Feb 2009 04:01

cmsahe wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Nebby, you are just so full of shit.

Nebiros wrote:Brian and Kevin lost their legitimacy in writing Dune books after Sandworms of Dune.

Wrong. They never had any legitimacy in writing Dune. Frank Herbert never issued any public statement about handing the franchise over to Brian to continue. And he never met that shithead Anderson and probably had never even heard of him.
And now KJA happens to be the brother of Brian?? How come? Remember that interview: "Sons of Dune." , and the cake picture: "Well done my boys!":)


If it were Hubbard's face on the cake then it would make sense.
Sieman Brothers? :wink:
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Postby SandChigger » 23 Feb 2009 04:09

Ya say see what? :?

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 23 Feb 2009 04:11

I see it's internet time in Japan right now. :wink: 1AM here...
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Postby Mr. Teg » 23 Feb 2009 07:56

SandChigger wrote:Ya say see what? :?


I see you need some visuals.

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Postby SandChigger » 23 Feb 2009 13:19

Has it come to this, then?! Oh, the humanity. :P


Facial disgracial ... eew. :(

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Postby Omphalos » 23 Feb 2009 14:28

someone gather all these jizzing smileys and post them at Arrakeen.

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Postby Mr. Teg » 23 Feb 2009 19:36

Brian did say they got off...I mean hit it off the first time they met.
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Postby moreh_yeladim » 24 Feb 2009 16:16

So who wants to mount an infiltration mission to get the so-called Notes of Herbert from the blaspheming pigs?
Brian Herbert is a perfect example of why you shouldn't leave a universe-spanning empire to your next of kin.

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Postby SandChigger » 24 Feb 2009 18:40

:shock:

Did you just enlist or something? Or have you been doing drugs with orald?

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Postby Nebiros » 26 Feb 2009 04:56

The book burning was not my idea. Chanilover or some other person suggested it back at Arrakeen.

Again I tell you that I did not think the Prelude/House books were that bad. Frank Herbert and the Dune encyclopedia made passing refrences to many different Great Houses, characters and planets. The first three new Dune books explore this world in greater detail like Ix and Ginaz. And few people would really discuss Fenring if he had not been a character in the House trilogy.

I admit that they were not as great as Frank Herbert's books, but after Chapterhouse there were two things fans of the series wanted: they wanted to know what happened next after Chapterhouse and to explore the Imperium of Shaddam IV in greater detail. The latter can be proven by the release of the Dune encyclopedia, Dune the movie and Dune computer games.

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Postby SandChigger » 26 Feb 2009 06:20

Well there's your first mistake: you oughta know better than to consider doin' anything that boy tells you. Hell, listen to him and you'll be burnin' your girdle in no time. He'll have you sashaying around here in high heels and a lovely evening gown and singin' "It's Raining Men" before you know it! :P

And again I say unto YOU that you are full of it. The House books tell you shit about the greater Empire and other houses. Hell, there WAS NO MAJOR HOUSE ON IX. And that BULLSHIT about Rhomboy getting clairbied about five millennia too soon?

Give me a break. :roll:
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Postby Seraphan » 26 Feb 2009 10:32

Nebiros wrote:And few people would really discuss Fenring if he had not been a character in the House trilogy.

WTF are you talking about? :?

Nebiros wrote:I admit that they were not as great as Frank Herbert's books, but after Chapterhouse there were two things fans of the series wanted: they wanted to know what happened next after Chapterhouse and to explore the Imperium of Shaddam IV in greater detail. The latter can be proven by the release of the Dune encyclopedia, Dune the movie and Dune computer games.

First off; by reading the Dune novels, anyone can realize that what BH & KJA did, did not follow Frank's ideas, they were in fact, off the fucking charts.
According to Norman Spinrad: "He(Frank Herbert) told me he planned to end the series with a novel that would transition to a fictional universe of democratic rule."

The Dune computer games have very little to do with the Duniverse itself: weirding modules, walking mechs, military vehicles, dont get me started on house ordos, etc. Little and none of the Dune novels involved.
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Postby Freakzilla » 26 Feb 2009 10:41

Seraphan wrote:
Nebiros wrote:And few people would really discuss Fenring if he had not been a character in the House trilogy.

WTF are you talking about? :?


I have to dissagree there as well, I've had many conversations about Count Fenring's activities in Dune, his effect on Paul's prescience as failed KH, his manipulations of the Baron, etc...

Pay attention.
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