Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

See: http://fantasybookcritic.blogspot.com/2 ... erson.html

OMG, I'm affraid to look. How bad is it?

I didn't dare look myself

For “Hunters of Dune” and “Sandworms of Dune” we were more constrained than in the previous books because we had to follow Frank Herbert’s detailed outline. A lot of the things people were complaining about were the things Frank left for us to do. But we had to write the books in the way he intended for the grand finale to unfold.

Um...otay, Erasmus?!

Rebecca’s main interest is in fiction for Young Adults, and by working together we can attract a whole new readership.

HA! Verification!

I thought thought the difference between his answer about Sandworms and Saga of Seven Suns really says it all.

“Last Days of Krypton” was a dream project for me, and I still consider it one of my best novels.

Mr. Teg wrote:

For “Hunters of Dune” and “Sandworms of Dune” we were more constrained than in the previous books because we had to follow Frank Herbert’s detailed outline. A lot of the things people were complaining about were the things Frank left for us to do. But we had to write the books in the way he intended for the grand finale to unfold.

Um...otay, Erasmus?!

Yeah, no shit. And don't give me that crap about "the things people were complaining about were the things Frank left for us to do" cuz that's a load of horse crap. If Frank had a retarded ghola of Waff making waterworms in his notes I'll eat my left shoe

Hey, that's almost like he's admitting the books are shit.. of course he's not going to take responsibility for that.

Mr. Teg wrote:

For “Hunters of Dune” and “Sandworms of Dune” we were more constrained than in the previous books because we had to follow Frank Herbert’s detailed outline. A lot of the things people were complaining about were the things Frank left for us to do. But we had to write the books in the way he intended for the grand finale to unfold.

Um...otay, Erasmus?!

Ugh. This fuckhead just does not stop, does he?

Omphalos wrote:

Mr. Teg wrote:

For “Hunters of Dune” and “Sandworms of Dune” we were more constrained than in the previous books because we had to follow Frank Herbert’s detailed outline. A lot of the things people were complaining about were the things Frank left for us to do. But we had to write the books in the way he intended for the grand finale to unfold.

Um...otay, Erasmus?!

Ugh. This fuckhead just does not stop, does he?

I sense a fable somewhere in this whole ordeal.

I'm not gonna read that crap. Give me the executive summary.

By FANTASY Book Critic.

How bleeding apropos.

Will have a bash at it later from the office.

(Ooh, virgin comment space! BEAT me to it, come on, someone BEAT me to it! )

(Is that page image overladen, or what?)

*ahem*

I’ve published something like 95 novels and hundreds of short stories. The ideas keep coming, and I keep developing my craft, pushing the envelope of what I can do (for example, the giant continuous story that ran over seven large volumes in Saga of Seven Suns)—which gives me a skill set so that I can try even more ambitious projects. I am just about to start a nautical fantasy trilogy with sailing ships and sea monsters, which takes me in a different direction. I love to write, and I hope to keep doing it for a long, long time.

Oh, really? Sea monsters...waterworms...sea monsters....waterworms. OK, I see no connection.

When I was a teenager, I was just the strange geek who read Sci Fi. Today, the biggest grossing films each year are science fiction, dozens of TV shows are SF, genre books regularly hit high on the bestseller lists. It’s become mainstream—and I’m thrilled about it. It’s good not to be the weirdo anymore!

Wait, do I sense repression? This speaks volumes about Kevin and his need to be in the center of everything! REVELATION!

...how Paul Atreides gradually changes from hero to tyrant.

Wow. Fail. Kevin just doesn't get it.

I think my best solo work is probably my Saga of Seven Suns series—seven volumes, and I just finished the last one. That series sums up everything I love about the science fiction genre.

Telling. Very telling.

...Frank Herbert’s detailed outline.

Wait. I thought it was just a very general plan, like a couple pages? Get your story straight, asshole.

OK, SC. It's your turn. I can only deal with so much bullshit.

Quote KJA:

"People had extremely high expectations—but you also have to remember that a very large portion of the readership really hated Frank’s own sequels when they originally appeared. “Dune Messiah” was labeled the “disappointment of the year.” Many readers couldn’t finish “God-Emperor of Dune”, they complained about “Heretics of Dune”, then they complained about “Chapterhouse Dune”. Now all those novels are considered classics."


That is what I'm saying, time will tell. (and thats not to say "I'm right" or anything just that time will tell, one way or the other)

I still don't care much for Dune Messiah.

Freakzilla wrote:I still don't care much for Dune Messiah.

My least favorite too, but still miles away better than anything new. Honestly, Simon, if these books are ever remembered twenty years from now, it will be because people associete frivolous good times with them, kind of like how Warrant and Poison are played and remembered today. They will never be remembered for saying anything more prophetic than:

Warrant wrote:She's my cherry pie
Cool drink of water
Such a sweet surprise
Tastes so good
Make a grown man cry
Sweet Cherry Pie
Yeah
Wow
Heh Heh

He mentions that "disappointment of the year" bit in the podcast interview as well. (He names "National Lampoon" first but then corrects himself, doesn't give a definite reference. Anybody got one?)

I guess that's his new angle? (Is it new?) "People complained about Frank's books, too! So nyeh!"

OK, Phaedrus, what logical fallacy is that?

What a self-inflating bore.

Misdirection? Straw-man? I dont recall.

Omphalos wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:I still don't care much for Dune Messiah.

My least favorite too, but still miles away better than anything new. Honestly, Simon, if these books are ever remembered twenty years from now, it will be because people associete frivolous good times with them, kind of like how Warrant and Poison are played and remembered today. They will never be remembered for saying anything more prophetic than:

Warrant wrote:She's my cherry pie
Cool drink of water
Such a sweet surprise
Tastes so good
Make a grown man cry
Sweet Cherry Pie
Yeah
Wow
Heh Heh

Of course I meant in relation to the other books in the series.

Freakzilla wrote:I still don't care much for Dune Messiah.

I still think Dune Messiah is probably the single best book in the series. Even when I first read it, I thought it was a near-equal to Dune, and I've just grown to like it more and more over time.

I guess that's his new angle? (Is it new?) "People complained about Frank's books, too! So nyeh!"

OK, Phaedrus, what logical fallacy is that?

(1) People complained about Frank Herbert's books when they first came out.
(2) People now consider Frank Herbert's books classics.
(3) People are complaining about Sandworms now.
(C) People will eventually consider Sandworms a classic.

Post hoc? 1 happened, then 2 happened, so 1 causes 2?

I love Dune Messiah too.

It sounds to me like KJA is squirming under all this criticism, and the criticism isn't just from fans.. so he's looking for excuses and scapegoats. There's no way that his juvenile garbage will ever be held in the same regard as the original Dune series is.

Post hoc, propter hoc? Hmmm.

I was thinking more false analogy. (People are reacting in the same way to both FH's sequels and the new books, therefore they share a common characteristic, greatness?) But maybe not....

A: Frank's sequels were great.
B: But people complained about them.
C: People are complaining about our books.
Ergo D: Our books are great, too.

Crap...what is that?

False syllogism?

I found an encyclopedia of logical fallacies, but I haven't looked at all of them yet

http://logicalfallacies.info/

EDIT: I kinda think his argument is of the red herring variety.

Omphalos wrote:False syllogism?

Hmmmmmmm....

I've been trying to figure it out using this page: http://www.duniho.com/fergus/sillysyllogisms.html

ARGH! It's been too long since I did this formal logic!