Page 1 of 1

Chapter 17

Posted: 01 Mar 2008 12:31
by Freakzilla
The female sense of sharing originated as familial sharing-care of the young,
the gathering and preparation of food, sharing joys, love and sorrows. Funeral
lamentation originated with women. Religion began as a female monopoly, wrested
from them only after its social power became too dominant. Women were the first
medical researchers and Practitioners. There has never been any clear balance
between the sexes because power goes with certain roles as it certainly goes
with knowledge.

-The Stolen Journals

Reverend Mother Anteac has been told by a Fish Speaker that the Bene Gesserit audience with the God Emperor has been moved from third to last. She fears there may be no spice left by the time they see Leto. She is grilling an acolyte messenger who has been in contact with the Ixians. She tells Anteac that the Ixians are awaiting the arrival of Hwi Noree, the new ambassador. While she was at the embassy, a Tleilaxu face dancer gave her a message, they will attempt to assassinate Leto today before he reaches Onn. Yake, the temporary ambassador gives her a secret message, the Ixian embassy has been invaded and infested with face dancers. Anteac, a secret mentat, discusses the translation of the Stolen Journals with Reverend Mother Luyseyal. They reveal that Siona is hidden from prescients like a Guild Navigator, she fades. They decide to prepare for the worst and call in a Fish Speaker to send a warning to Lord Leto.

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 20 Jul 2012 11:06
by Freakzilla
No revisions.

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 26 Jun 2016 06:41
by JasterMereel
Reverend Mother Anteac is the one who is a Mentat, not Luyseyal.
"Yes, with high probability"
"You should be careful with terms such as high probability," Luyseyal said. "We don't want anyone thinking you're a Mentat."
Anteac's tone was dry. "I presume you will not give me away."

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 27 Jun 2016 05:38
by Freakzilla
JasterMereel wrote:Reverend Mother Anteac is the one who is a Mentat, not Luyseyal.
"Yes, with high probability"
"You should be careful with terms such as high probability," Luyseyal said. "We don't want anyone thinking you're a Mentat."
Anteac's tone was dry. "I presume you will not give me away."
OOPS! Good catch, thanks.

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 29 Jun 2016 12:33
by JasterMereel
OOPS! Good catch, thanks.
No problem! Just recently found this forum and it's nice to find people who reject Brian Herbert's horrible novels as much as I do. On my third re-read in a row now so I'm catching more details.

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 06 Jan 2023 00:34
by drk_evns
I thought they mentioned Siona fading in a way DISTINCT from other prescient beings like guild navigators?

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 30 Jan 2023 11:26
by georgiedenbro
drk_evns wrote: 06 Jan 2023 00:34 I thought they mentioned Siona fading in a way DISTINCT from other prescient beings like guild navigators?
Interesting question. I don't personally remember this distinction being made, but it would make sense that it's not quite the same thing. Even a potentially latent prescient like Duncan seems to register, so having that genetic possibility wouldn't be enough. I always saw the oracle or guild scrying shield to be something akin to a future battle of wills where they can't guide where you'll be because you're also busy guiding where things will go. It creates a wall of control neither side can penetrate. Whereas with Siona it seems to be a physicalization of the principle of movement without rhythm in the desert, where Shai Hulud can't detect your presence because your actions are unpredictable. In her case the unpredictable movement is baked into her DNA, and the Shai Hulud in question is anyone with prescience. So that would seem to me to be distinct.

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 09 Feb 2023 00:09
by Freakzilla
Siona did it EXACTLY like guild navigators, except Leto suppressed the prescience/other memory to a subconscious level (instinct)

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 09 Feb 2023 10:20
by georgiedenbro
Freakzilla wrote: 09 Feb 2023 00:09 Siona did it EXACTLY like guild navigators, except Leto suppressed the prescience/other memory to a subconscious level (instinct)
I guess you have to be correct on one level, since being invisible is being invisible. I was thinking more in terms of the narrative implications of what being invisible says about that person's abilities or motives. Is there textual evidence that Leto intentionally found a way to suppress the Atreides prescience so that it would only be subconscious? I've been on hiatus in my re-readings, having finished the first three a year or two ago, and at this point it's probably been a good 7-8 years since I've read GEoD.

Re: Chapter 17

Posted: 18 Apr 2023 13:07
by Freakzilla
georgiedenbro wrote: 09 Feb 2023 10:20
Freakzilla wrote: 09 Feb 2023 00:09 Siona did it EXACTLY like guild navigators, except Leto suppressed the prescience/other memory to a subconscious level (instinct)
I guess you have to be correct on one level, since being invisible is being invisible. I was thinking more in terms of the narrative implications of what being invisible says about that person's abilities or motives. Is there textual evidence that Leto intentionally found a way to suppress the Atreides prescience so that it would only be subconscious? I've been on hiatus in my re-readings, having finished the first three a year or two ago, and at this point it's probably been a good 7-8 years since I've read GEoD.
Not directly, but there are hints:
What is the most profound difference between us, between you and me? You already
know it. It's these ancestral memories. Mine come at me in the full glare of
awareness. Yours work from your blind side. Some call it instinct or fate. The
memories apply their leverages to each of us-on what we think and what we do.
You think you are immune to such influences? I am Galileo. I stand here and tell
you: "Yet it moves." That which moves can exert its force in ways no mortal
power ever before dared stem. I am here to dare this.

-The Stolen Journals
He talks about Siona's instincts later in the book...